Friday, November 6, 2009

What would you do? #18

This is an example of a hand where it becomes a matter of philosophy... Do you go after every pot relentlessly? This pot appears to be what I like to call "orphaned," which is to say that no one seems very interested in capturing it.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - http://www.thehandconverter.com/hands/354920
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $10.00
Hero (BTN): $50.00
SB: $72.65
BB: $53.10
UTG: $12.05
UTG+1: $5.10
MP1: $46.65
MP2: $12.75

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with Jd Th
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.25, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.75, UTG+1 calls $2.75, MP2 calls $2.75
Typical squeeze, but I did *NOT* expect this many callers...

Flop: ($13.75) 2s 5h 7d (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50
I have a backdoor and overs (which are probably worthless); I'm going to call this.

Turn: ($15.75) 8c (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50
I *SHOULD* have raised right here & now and raised big, but I don't know what I was thinking...

River: ($17.75) 4s (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero requests TIME, Hero ???
At this time, no one knows where anyone else is. There has not been much post flop betting other than the .50 that everyone keeps contributing to. What do you do in this spot? I don't think the results matter much, but the question is bet or check - and if bet, how much?

For reference, here are the remaining stack sizes:
Hero (BTN): $46.25
UTG: $8.30
UTG+1: $1.35
MP2: $9.00




Click to see results



Hero bets $8.25, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $8.25

Final Pot: $34.25
Hero shows Jd Th (Jack Ten high)
MP2 shows 4h Ad (a pair of Fours)
MP2 wins $32.55
(Rake: $1.70)
In retrospect, I think this was a dumb bet on my part, if for nothing else but based on the remaining stack sizes. However, would this be different if the effective starting stacks were 100BBs deep? How would you treat it differently?

6 comments:

  1. First, I just stumbled upon your blog and I think it's great! Thank you!

    I am by no means a great or even good player, but I think the first thing you need to ask is, what are your opponents' ranges, especially after the min-bets/calls (which I treat essentially as checks because they show no strength). There CAN be some draws, but most likely holdings I suppose are smallish, non-set PPs and Axs that connected and are weakish.

    The problem is you have no way to make them define their hand strength without putting in money with basically nothing and your weakness on the flop has defined your own hand.

    Basically, you made a solid play preflop, it didn't work out well, and I think you should be done with the hand early. I supposed calling the min-bets is ok, because it's a cheap way to see what these donkeys are min-betting and calling with and it will assist you later.

    Again, thanks for your blog....looking forward to more.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "The problem is you have no way to make them define their hand strength without putting in money with basically nothing and your weakness on the flop has defined your own hand."

    Yeah... I agree that I basically take my hand and turn it into an apparent bluff. However, against these short stackers, who were calling nearly half their stacks PRE FLOP, I figured they had to be weak. Again, though, regardless - I have to figure, given the stack sizes, that AT MINIMUM, the UTG+1 should be calling ATC right here. I was actually surprised to see the "larger" stack call my bet. I should have shoved the turn.

    Is everyone who reads this able to click and see the results?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Yep i saw the results just fine. I liked your analysis and i think the turn was the ONLY good spot to be bluffing here. River obvi wasn't as you said because of the stacks. NH

    ReplyDelete
  4. You took a stab at an "orphaned" pot which nobody seemd to interested in scooping. I like your thinking in taking the iniative in these types of scenarios. So it didn't work out -- oh well! Consider betting slightly less here since it would establish the same thing at a lower cost to you. If you bet $5 here for instance it may have achieved the exact same result. Thus,a $5 stab (or 1/3 of the pot) will be much more profitable in like scenarios as you zero in on that exact fold/call threshold of your opponents.

    PS...Meister, I'm able to see all of the results now.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Darn those short stackers.. Shove it all in. OK, just kidding. Me? I would have raised the flop. These weak donk bets are exactly that... weak. It doesn't even have to be that big of a raise.. maybe 1/2 pot.

    If you get called.. so be it. shut er down.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Yeah... definitely NOT one of my finer poker moments... Oh well - live & learn, right?

    ReplyDelete

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