Monday, April 26, 2010

What would you do? #92 - facing flop shove holding KK

From Rush:

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official Hand History Converter

BTN: $59.55
SB: $109.45 - 91 hands / 14.8 / 4.5 / 3bet 3% / 0% steal
Hero (BB): $616.00 - *LOVING* my stack size, LOL!!!
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $155.10
UTG+2: $107.45
MP1: $93.20
MP2: $198.05
CO: $210.30 - 10 hands / 70/60/ 3bet 60% / 33% steal

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with Kd Ks
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $3, 2 folds, CO raises to $10.50, BTN calls $10.50, SB calls $10, Hero raises to $35, 1 fold, CO calls $24.50, 1 fold, SB calls $24.50
CO and I are deep, so I think I can move up to $35, PF, and get a call. I'm actually surprised to see SB come along, committing ~35% of his stack.

Flop: ($118.50) 4s Js 4c (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $36.50, SB raises to $74.45 all in, Hero ???

Click to see results

This flop appears to be the perfect type of flop for an overpair such as I have. The only "reasonable" hand that my opponents can have which beats me is JJ or a slowed-down AA. Given that CO is a total LAGtard, I'm not quite sure what SB is doing shipping, other than the air/monster polarization ship...
Hero raises to $112.40, CO folds
Given the pot size and remaining stack sizes, I'd prefer to cut spade draws out of the picture, but given that I have the Ks, it's not a terrible thing to see a spade draw still hanging around. However, my raise leaves little left for CO, in terms of implied odds. I have about $60 remaining.

Turn: ($303.90) 3h (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($303.90) 9d (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $303.90
SB shows 5d 6d (a pair of Fours)
Hero shows Kd Ks (two pair, Kings and Fours)
Hero wins $300.90
(Rake: $3.00)


  1. Haven't read the answer yet, so...

    I think your four-bet preflop was good, although you could have even made it larger. Making it only $24 more gave the CO decent odds to draw to a set, while if you bet $40 or $45 it'd take away those odds.

    Your flop check was curious too -- I'm not sure I like it, because you honestly want to get money in at this point and the CO could easily check behind and get a free ace or set. Against one player I do like a check to get them committed, but it seems dangerous against two players. I think you need to bet there, be willing to call the SB all in if needed, and reevaluate if the CO pushes (although his stats make him look like a nut).

    Ok, now, at the point of the hand in question... it's tough. You may have induced the CO to bet QQ, AJ, etc with your check. Against him alone, I'd be happy to shove. Against the SB alone, I'd be happy to shove. Against both together, I'm not so sure. You pushing will give away the strength of your hand, leaving you open to lose an extra $100 to the CO if you have the worst hand, and isolating you against the SB if you have the best hand (and he could have your beat). One of them could have a flush draw, so that helps.

    Overall, it seems like a pretty even EV spot to me -- I'm ok with the fold, I might consider just calling with a plan to fold to a shove from the CO, or I might shove. Given that the CO has odd stats, I think I'd be overall likely to shove, but probably almost half the time I'd wimp out and just fold.

    ... ok, now I'll look at the results...

    Wow, I think I give other people way more credit for a hand than I should. Shoving no pair no draw? Really?

    Question for you though, Meister. Would you call if the CO shoves on you? If so, you should be shoving on your raise, nothing less. Don't give him improved odds in such a big pot -- just shove it.

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  3. First - props to me on my $600 stack size at $100NL :-). After this hand, I had like $800!!! I've never been 800BB deep!

    Second -
    Question for you though, Meister. Would you call if the CO shoves on you?

    I would call all day, every day and sometimes Sunday. I don't want him in there with a club draw, but I'm giving him some semblance of odds to make the call; I'm actually kind of wanting him to make the call here or over-shove me. FYI - I'm shoving any non Ace, non club turn because Co has 100BBs behind and the pot would be ~$360 at that point. It would be too big for him to lay down any pair, and too big for me to check / call the rest of the way down. If we're playing for stacks, we're playing for stacks; I'm not going to mess around.


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