Wednesday, October 6, 2010

What would you do? #193 - Overplayed or outplayed? - Another overbet shove

 Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official Hand History Converter

MP1: $100.00
Hero (MP2): $100.00
CO: $100.00 - 16/12/ 38% steal / 5.7% 3bet / 2.3 AF / 852 hands
BTN: $109.95
SB: $96.00
BB: $120.70
UTG: $96.90
UTG+1: $110.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with Jh Jd
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $10, 3 folds, Hero calls $7

Flop: ($21.50) 9d 3s 8s (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $16, Hero calls $16

Turn: ($53.50) 8d (2 players)
Hero checks, CO requests TIME, CO bets $74 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero ???

Click to see results

Hero calls $74 all in
It just looks so bluffy here.  I'm not quite sure what his intention is by doing this, but I look him up.  It's just such a weird spot to shove on the turn.  

River: ($201.50) Jc (2 players - 2 are all in)
[Face palm!]

Final Pot: $201.50
Hero shows Jh Jd (a full house, Jacks full of Eights)
CO shows Qh Qs (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Hero wins $198.50
(Rake: $3.00)


  1. Guessing he was trying to charge you the max for a spade draw or JT (which I don't have you on in a 3bet pot).

    Can you talk about why you chose to flat with JJ? Looks like a coinflip to me vs. a 6% 3bet range.

  2. LMAO You lucksack! heh. I have a lot of trouble folding overpairs.. I think you might too?

  3. No reason for the shove there....most of the players play straight up at that when the board paired the only hand calling is a already checked....if he checks behind....even when you hit your card you would have bet for value and he could have gotten out looks like he is a descent reg.....does he show profit on ptr?.....I had him on 1010 before the results

  4. I flat the 3bet because I refuse to fold to a 6% 3bet, but I don't want to inflate the pot further while OOP.

    I usually don't have problems folding overpairs, but it just seems like such an odd line here, shoving the turn. I actually put him on AKs or AKd really wanting me to fold but okay with his outs if I call.

  5. When you couple the line he took with the fact that he requested time before then pushing allin, that is a hand ahead of your single pair of Jacks almost every time. I'm always surprised I don't see people comment on this more, but really when you get the big dramatic pause, followed by a large bet or raise, it is almost always the goods. JJ is behind there 97+ percent of the time.

    If you want to make a stand with the Jacks, why not raise the flop, and if he calls then you can be done putting any real money into this pot?

  6. I have to state that I'm likely taking this very same line with AA,KK,AK as I am with JJ here.

    While I agree with the whole thought on the dramatic TIME call, I think this turn shove is *EXTREMELY* thin. Who is ever calling this overbet, other than hands that beat him? I have to think that Tens are folding, which leaves JJ, KK, AA, and potentially sets, and AKs. It's just such an odd "value" line to take here, which is the reason I posted it...

  7. I call since I think this villain will have many different drawing hands here, including: 10-J,10-10, Adxd, Asxs, which outweighs his value range of QQ+. I also think he value bets down his made hands like 88 and 99 so I rule those out. Meister--you mentioned in your last comment that you're taking this same line with AA, KK and AK which I have to disagree with. Are you really flat-calling OOP 3-bets with AA and KK as frequently as you are with JJ? I'd assume not. Thus if I'm the villain I'm ruling these hands out of your range, which makes his shove a little more reasonable, since he can own you when you have 10-10 and J-J or charge you the max with combo-draws. Like I said from the beginning I think I still call here and get owned by this solid reg.


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