Monday, October 11, 2010

More overbet for value hands... A hand gone wild

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $100.00
MP1: $100.05
MP2: $188.00
CO: $170.95
BTN: $120.45 - 16/13/6.0% 3bet / 34% steal (HUH?) / 2.7AF @ 1.2K hands
Hero (SB): $165.00
BB: $129.80
UTG: $120.80

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with As 3s
5 folds, BTN raises to $2.50, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, BTN requests TIME, BTN raises to $23, Hero calls $13
Player specific; he's raising about 50% of the time from the BTN and 39% from the SB.  I opt to 3bet him, fairly sure that I'm ahead of his range.  He 4bets me, which I perceive as weak.  I think he's angling to take this down immediately.

Flop: ($47.00) 2s Kd Ac (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
I check the flop because the pot is already large and I don't want to find myself in a situation where he raises me all in.  If he has an Ace, his Ace is almost 100% better than mine, but I'm not so sure he even hit the flop here.

Turn: ($47.00) 5s (2 players)
Hero bets $30, BTN requests TIME, BTN calls $30
Now I'm 100% sure I'm ahead of him.  However, he still likes his hand.  He's not 4betting PF with a hand like 22...  He could have KK, but I *HIGHLY* doubt it.  Likely, he has a good King or less likely a decent Ace.

His flat has me in a quandary.

River: ($107.00) 5d (2 players)
Hero bets $112 all in, BTN calls $67.45 all in
The 5 pairing the board is the best thing I could have hoped for.  If he has an Ace, we split.  (AQ and below are counterfeited by the K kicker).  If he truly likes his King, he's going to call.  I'm actually praying for a fold because I think it more likely that he has a decent Ace than a good King.

Final Pot: $241.90
BTN mucks 8h Kh - LOL!
Hero shows As 3s (two pair, Aces and Fives)
Hero wins $238.90
(Rake: $3.00)


  1. "If he has an Ace, his Ace is almost 100% better than mine". Ok, I have to admit I chuckled here a little. What ace are you better than? OK, I guess he could also have A3.

    Nice hand though.

  2. Funny - as I was writing it, I originally wrote, "his ace is 100% better than mine," but then I thought... what happens if he shows up with A3? I would be incorrect.

    The only reason I posted this hand was to try to show a case where I want to force a fold (but am pleasantly surprised with the results).

  3. I do not like the way you played this hand. 3Betting with A3s is great, but flatting a 4bet with it is bad, IMO. You've left yourself an SPR of 2, meaning you have no fold equity, meaning you have no semibluffing opportunities (say you hit the 3 with a flush draw, wouldn't you want to CRAI?) I also don't think you can fold top pair with an SPR of 2, so it's too late to worry about your kicker once the flop hits.

    If you read his 4bet as weak, I would much rather 5bet shove preflop than flat with A2.

    One other note- if I raise a hand like A8 from the button and see a flop, my standard play is to check the flop if I hit the ace. This shortens the hand and makes sure I don't stack myself with TPWK, but also often gets me two streets of value as he bluffs after assuming I have no ace. So I'm not sure you should be 100% sure you're ahead on the turn.

    This is also the second time I have seen you talk about forcing folds with showdown-worthy hands (you did so once on a hand I posted on my blog) - and I still need to think about that idea. I don't like it, but will admit that it might be a concept that's over my head. When I have a showdown-worthy hand, I want to get to showdown, figuring I'm often in a spot where good hands (2pr+) won't fold to a bluff but worse hands won't put much more money in the pot either.

  4. What is your plan if he c bets half pot on the flop?
    Calling and c/f turn?

  5. If he cbets the flop, then I'm likely to shove over. It's a very very thin spot, though.
    Clearly, his check on the flop was the key to the hand, though.

    @Matt: Although my hand has showdown value, I want him to fold hands that chop with me. I would prefer a fold to a showdown chop any time, any day. I don't want to get to showdown with this hand for fear that he also has an Ax hand.

  6. I have to agree with Matt Tag here; I hate the 4bet flat which you "read as weakness". Would villain really not play a premium hand the same way? It's your call, in fact, which looks pretty weak when you flat a 4bet OOP. As played I don't mind the river shove, but I'm surprised you got a call here. This is a classic scenario of while you got max value out of your hand in this case, I don't think it's the play that will earn you the greatest expectation in the long-run.

  7. Flatting the 4b OOP is pretty spewy imo, if you want to continue with the hand, just ship it pre... A3s is a great hand to 5b bluff with anyway as it has reasonable equity vs a calling range and a blocker to AA/AK/AQ

    Btw if he cbets the flop there is no point in a c/r, if you think a c/r is going to be +EV then you should c/c down instead

  8. agree with all...flatting 4bets with A3 is obv severely -EV particularly against a fishy villain who will provide more +EV spots.

    But it is always fun to bluff with the best hand. I do it all the

  9. I'm wondering if getting hands that chop with you to fold is worth the times you stack yourself when he's ahead and won't fold. The chance of that on this particular hand is lower than it was on mine (where you were advocating shoving a pair of kings with a weak kicker when an ace came on the turn).

    Worth a deeper look. On the surface, it seems that targeting hands that tie with you is often acting on a very thin part of their possible holdings

  10. I agree with the others who think a 5 bet shove is better in this spot.

    If you think you're ahead get your chips in early. It's a decent sized pot preflop.

    Villain was pretty bad here but you'd be in a tough spot if you didn't connect with the flop.

  11. I understand the sentiment about not wanting to flat a 4bet, OOP, but I have issue potentially getting it all in on a 55/45 "flip." It just doesn't make sense to me to flip for stacks on such a narrow edge.

  12. Ace Rag Donkey. LOL. I have a lot to learn about poker when A-3 is a 5-bet shove pre-flop hand. I am AMAZED K8 called you too... I think you convinced him that you were totally bluffing with air and he is a very bad player that wants to pick off those bets......

  13. a 55% flip is better than the winning percentage you will get fit-or-folding the flop, and has some fold equity to boot.

    The Vegas casinos were built on smaller edges.


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