Tuesday, June 8, 2010

What would you do? #118 - Facing river shove with the second nut straight

Funny... This comes on the heals of a previous post...

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $59.10 - 25 / 13 / 25% steal @ 16 hands
Hero (BB): $52.60
UTG: $29.65
UTG+1: $50.00
MP1: $51.35
MP2: $28.30
CO: $65.25
BTN: $48.65

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 7s 9h
2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.50, MP2 calls $1.50, 2 folds, SB calls $1.25, Hero calls $1
I call given the players seeing the flop.

Flop: ($6.00) 4c 8s 6s (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks

Turn: ($6.00) 7d (4 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4, MP1 folds, MP2 folds

River: ($14.00) 5h (2 players)
SB bets $53.60 all in, Hero ???
So this is a slightly different than the other post, in that I do have the second nut straight.  What would you do?

Click to see results

Hero calls $47.10 all in

Final Pot: $108.20
SB shows 9d Td (a straight, Ten high)
Hero mucks 7s 9h
SB wins $105.20
(Rake: $3.00)


  1. this hand sucks - I see lots of bad players spazz shove where there is a straight on the board thinking "hah, we're all chopping", and forget that people can have higher straights. (and also forgetting that a spazz shove only bumps up the rake for Full Tilt).

    His turn bet looks strong - so it's a value bet with 2 pair or set, trying to protect against the draws, or the already made 9T.

    Did he check two pair or a set on the flop, hoping to checkraise? Or did he check with nothing but a gutshot 9T and get there?

    I probably call and regret it the rest of the week when he shows 9T. If I knew this was a bad player (impossible to tell after 16 hands), I would be much happier about calling

  2. The SB bet $53 into a $14 pot. Facing an overbet like this, what you do you usually see from the villain. Do they tend to have the nuts or a stab at the pot? Do the stats help you make a decision?

  3. I don't think the stats are any help here. 16 hands is not a significant sample size whatsoever. However, he did the same thing to me as I did in the other post, except this time, I have the 2nd nut straight.

    I think an overbet shove like this into a $14 pot more often than not points to the V attempting to push me off the hand (figuring at worst for a split) more than showing down the nuts, but I could be wrong.

  4. When you call your straight 'the second nuts' on this board, it makes it sound like you have a strong hand, but you really don't. The Third nuts is the board! Therefore there are only 3 hands: the board, your hand, and the nuts. You have a medium hand.

    Calling $54 for a $14 pot to pick off a bluff (with no read on the player) or 'hopefully chop' is arguably terrible.

    That said, there are enough bad players at these stakes who would think that this board is a 'prime bluffing opportunity' to risk their stack to win $14, so i understand your call, but I wouldn't do it myself.

  5. This is a really tough spot...

    We should note that SB woke up on the turn with a bet into three opponents... It's probably not a bluff but it's not easy to narrow it down either. T9 would be the made nuts, but I wouldn't rule out a good pair or set hand; as first to act on the flop he might have been check/raising or struggling with how to extract with a monster out of position.

    On the river, such an overbet would seem unlikely to be the pure nuts every time, so I think it's going to be very hard for me to lay this down.

  6. this is a call and it's not particularly close without reads

  7. Thank you Loretta! I'm actually surprised Anonymous alludes to not calling a shove without the nuts. That type of mentality is particularly exploitable...

  8. I think mathematically, you can justify a call. You are getting about 1.3 to 1 on your call. If you think that V is bluffing here 45% or more, you're profitable calling.

    That said, I feel It's better to put your money in a better spot.

    Loretta, why is this a snap call, how often is this a bluff vs nuts?


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