Monday, January 11, 2010

Interesting situation - TT vs. short stacker shove vs. LAG flat

Interesting situation where the pot becomes very bloated, pre-flop, due to a short stacker:

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players -
The Official Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $55.60
Hero (MP): $61.90
CO: $9.65
BTN: $9.75 - Short stacker with typical 10/8 range
SB: $10.25
BB: $75.25 - 41/28 over 100+ hands
UTG: $8.25

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with Ts Td - I'm going to break up the pre flop action so that it is easier to read:
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, BTN raises to $9.75 all in,
Am I ever folding TT vs. a short stack shover? Probably not. I'm good enough times here that I will show a profit over the long term to call a short stack shover.
1 fold, BB calls $9.25,
At this point, what can the BB be flatting for 20BBs? He is a LAG, so I'm thinking about his range in this spot: AK, AQ, [maybe] AJ (I tend to think that AK is going to re-raise though, because LAGs / donks are taught that AK is the nuts), and pocket pairs.

Hero raises to $20, BB calls $10.25
Here's my mistake though: With ~$20 in the pot, I raise another $10, offering him 3:1 for him to make his call. The question is: What should I be raising to? Should I be shoving here? I don't really want to shove because he's calling AK and [maybe] AQ, in which case we're 50/50 with the overlay of the short stacker's 20BBs.

I am reasonably sure that I can get away from the pot with 1/3 of my stack lost if I see an A or K hit the flop.

Flop: ($50.00) 7s 2d 6c (3 players - 1 is all in)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, BB folds
I want to shut down over card draws by making a "significant" cbet here. I think the size of the bet, not necessarily in relationship to the pot size, is the shocking / significant factor here. (I don't think your standard donks are thinking about bet sizing in relationship to pot size.) As a side note, I don't have a problem with this play: dry flop, a little less than half pot bet. Clearly, it's a committing bet where if he shoves, I am going to re-evaluate / call.

Turn: ($50.00) 6h (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($50.00) Ad (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $50.00
Hero shows Ts Td (two pair, Tens and Sixes)
BTN shows 9h 9c (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
Hero wins $19.45
Hero wins $28.05
(Rake: $2.50)
In the end, I think I got pretty decent value out of a middle pair. I just haven't been in this situation too often, where a short stacker over shoves for (in ratio to the pot) an odd amount (20BBs when the raise was 3.5BBs), thus bloating the pot and screwing things up for stack-pot ratios.


  1. BB play here is weird. He probably has a hand here. With the SSer all-in, he might be unwilling to try and out play you post flop since he'll be forced to show down. Some LAGs love showing their bluffs though. Not enough history to tell but your range sounds about right. With your raise, and reraise after the SS shove I'd lean more towards a pocket pair but it's hard to say without watching his previous play.

    Short stackers are odd. They wait for a hand and try and get it all in either before or on the flop.

    A lot of times at these small limits I see them getting bored waiting for a real hand and will shove ATC if folded to in LP though.

    In either case, I think it was played well for the situation. A bigger pre-flop raise after the shove might have scared out UTG or committed him.

    Did UTG say anything in chat after the hand?

  2. @MicroRoller - No comments from the SSer. The scary part was his 2 flats. He obviously wanted to see a flop cheaply, by flatting twice, and was clearly unsure of where he was in the hand. The fear I have is if he comes over the top for ~125 effective BBs (I have a $62 stack), what am I going to do? That SSer really screwed things up for me, but it worked out in the end.


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