Wednesday, December 15, 2010

What would you do? #209 - Line check with TPGK

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $59.10
UTG+2: $86.30
MP1: $31.35
MP2: $18.50
CO: $46.45
BTN: $48.75 - 100/0 @ 1 hand
Hero (SB): $50.00
BB: $50.00
UTG: $20.15

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with Jc Ah
6 folds, BTN calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.00) 6h As 5h (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.50, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $5.25, BTN calls $3.75

Turn: ($15.50) 8s (2 players)
Hero bets $10, BTN raises to $41.25 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero folds

Final Pot: $35.50
BTN wins $33.75
(Rake: $1.75)

Thoughts? Am I making too much of this; is this any easy fold or a stupid fold? It just seems like such an polarizing overbet. What do you think?


  1. Yep, it is a huge bet. I try to meditate the mantra of 'There will always be better spots, there will always be better spots..."

  2. It's a good fold, but I think it is kinda close depending on how often he'll ship draws and combo draws.

    I do think it is polarized, but not likely in the way you are thinking. I think he either has you crushed, w/ 2 pair+, AK, AQ, or is drawing/combo drawing. I don't think there are any straight bluffs in his range, not on a board like this. I can't run the numbers here are work, but my guess is your don't have enough equity against his entire range to call. You are too crushed by his value range, and not that far ahead of his semi-bluffing range, even on the turn.

  3. BTN... open limps? LOL.

    He's an unknown, don't go broke with a jack kicker. Wait until you find out what he's up to. Chances are, with him not buying in full and limping on the button, that you will have plenty of future opportunities against him in the future, mostly IN position.

  4. Everyone has basically said fold because you're beat. But I haven't heard anyone do a full line check.

    Why are we potting the SB into an unknown on the button? Granted I do believe we have a better hand here almost always. But take your mindset out of the "villain's limp on the button is so weak, I'm so ahead of his range, I'm gonna get stacks in" mentality and you'll realize that you're open-folding this hand, AJo, from UTG.

    So what makes it so appealing when you are in the SB vs a button limper? Is this different from open-raising or limp-calling the same hand from UTG? Do you think that the villain is going to fold to you a ton here?

    You're playing the entire hand OOP where your hand is much more defined than villains. You also have the same reverse-implied odds that you would if you were playing hands like KJo or A10o from UTG which is evidenced by the post-flop play here. Your check-raise on the flop doesn't really accomplish much other than fold out hands that really weren't going to take much heat anyway: 33,44,A2,57s. This really puts us in an awkward spot where we're not quite sure if we want a call and we will hate a lot of turn cards as well. While villain could have sets, two pair combo or AK/AQ here, I also think he is playing Ahxh and 7h8h the same way. Are we ever going to force a fold out of any of these hands? Nope. Thus we are just value-towning ourselves in this hand from beginning to end.

  5. I agree with Josh...I hate the c/r on the flop. I would greatly prefer a lead at this OTF. All the c/r does is bloat the pot against a fishy villain with a marginal hand. Unless we are willing to stack off here (which as others have stated doesn't seem +EV) I don't like the c/r at all. If he has 1/2 a brain he has to know that at a minimum you have an A.

  6. btw... this is not an overbet. A pot sized raise would have been to $45.50

    He really can't raise less w/o it looking super strong/committing. So why not shove???

  7. i just want to tell you that u have big leak in your game
    you are check raising oop on flop and you are bloating the pot in spots where no worse hand will call and all pure air bluffs will fold, and you are isolating yourself oop vs better hands or hand that have a ton of eq + feq and you r turning your hand face up and most of the times you end up facing a shove with hand that only can beat bluffs or draws

  8. This is obviously a unique spot; I'm generally not raising OOP like this with AJ against a limp.

    If I were to read in between the lines from your comment, it seems that you're suggesting a check / call line for the remainder of the hand. Is that correct? Is there a point in which you fold (i.e. if he goes for 3 streets of value instead of 2)?

  9. Here is my suggested line:

    Pre-flop: Complete the SB. Fold to a raise from the BB.

    Flop: Lead for 2/3 pot [$1.00]. Fold to a raise.

    Turn: If called on flop, lead the turn once again for around 2/3 pot. Fold to a raise.

    River: If you've been called twice thus far, most of the time the villain should have been drawing or had an inferior Ace-X hand. While an Ace-X hand calls a value bet, all busted draws and spaz-floats do not. Thus, I check the river for value with the intent of snapping off a bet most when obvious draws miss.

    To Jas's point " worse hand will call..." a check raise and " are isolating yourself vs hands that have a ton of equity against you...".

  10. if your Q is addressed to me
    here is mine answer
    first i dont raise preflop vs unknown oop in that spot with AJo, i dont want to bloat the pot and i dont want to narrow mine range oop, I might raise sometimes with hands like t9s etc
    so i just call preflop and when i call preflop I want to go to showdown as cheap as possible vs BTN to get some info on the way he plays his hands, thats means i'll call him very light on some boards (def not folding top pair)and I'm not raising except i hit monster like trips J, 2 pairs, str8
    when i raise oop I'm never ever checking or planing to check raise on that kind of board (i mean Ahi boards, plus there is flush/str8 draw on this board which makes checking even worse in this spot, cos he have a ton of draws/pairs in his limp calling range that will call a bet but not bet them self and for sure those kind of hands cant stand c/r even if they bet), so I'm C betting 100% on flop

    also do u realize that after u check on flop your hand is under represent and practically a bluff catcher? that means that you need to let him bluf into you and you keep check calling (when you check call your hands looks like 99-kk and he will bet all his Ax + some blufs + all hands that got u beat)
    and when you c/r on flop no worse will call your raise and no better will fold, he might call sometimes with some flush draws or str8draws but i dont think that he will bet flop with them to start with, or that u take any value out of those hands in next streets when you bet
    so yes when you check flop im highly suggesting to turn your hand into bluff catcher (and thats where most value cames from) and best play imo here should be calling down for cheap showdown (info/value) keeping pot small

  11. Good Analysis Jas. I think we can all take something away from your perspective here.


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