Monday, October 28, 2013

Sunday night recap and a What Would You Do?

At this point in my 1/2 career, I'm still astounded by players paying off a full buy in on anything where they don't have "significant" equity.  Certainly, it's rarity to see top pair pay off a buy in, but that was my 5th hand into the session:

Dealt KK UTG.  Deciding how much to raise, I see 2 loose limpers throw in $2 ahead of me.  Assessing the situation, and calling to the dealer's attention that I had yet made my move, I raised to $13-14 UTG open.  Normal raise for this spot is $11, but I felt I could get away with a bit larger because these guys were sure to call.  Both called, as did the guy to my right in the BB and we see a flop of 3 3 Q - 2 clubs.  I lead for $30 into the $52 pot, expecting to see the LAG(s) with the random 3 raise it up.  No such activity - one LAG flats and the table folds.  $122 in the pot.

Turn is a blank 9(?) and I lead for $70.  Snap call from LAG.

River is another blank.  I auto shove for my final $105.  He thinks for a second and calls.  He pays off my overpair and my session is off to a nice start.

I see a lot of players slow down the turn and only get half stacks in the middle by the river in this spot.  With a paired board, Q high, what should I really be afraid of?  He can have random 3's but he's shown that he'll bet hard when he has what he believes to be the goods.  He pot controls (or tries to) the non-goods showdown worthy hands.  Therefore I get an early double up.

Mix of hands in between, one of which I'll point out:

KJdd BB.  Limpers in multiple spots and tightish straightforward player raises to $8-11 or something.  Small raise.  1 caller on BTN and I call my BB.  1 other caller (LAG) and we see a K 8 3 rainbow flop.  Out of position, I check and it checks through.  Turn is a 4.  I lead turn for $20 and get called by original raiser and LAG - BTN folds.  River is a blank.  I check and LAG fires $35.  Original raiser tanks for a bit and finally just calls.

What do you do there?

I'm 100% positive I'm ahead of LAG.  What do you make of original raiser's call?  I suppose I should call given the amount of money vs. the pot, but I want to make the right decision and not just call based on the pots odds.  I really felt like original raiser is pot controlling KQ, maybe even AK.  Stupidly, I muck and am shown bluff (LAG) vs. QQ (original raiser).  Stupid me.


Final hand of interest:
Background is a curmudgeon (old man) sits down with a chip on his shoulder.  Buys in for $300 and is treading water.  I raise 9 9 to $15 from mid position against 2 limpers.  Folds to curmudgeon who calls.  Limpers fold.  Before the flop is laid out, he tells me he "checks dark."  We see a good flop of 3 7 T.  Backdoor straight draw + likely good pair.  I lead for $15 again, not sure why he's checking dark, but I want over cards to draw on me.  He c/rs me to $30 and, surprised, I call.  Turn is a J and he leads for $100 red.  I tank fold my turned gutter - 99% positive he's got JJ, QQ, KK, AA.  He's proud of himself and giving me the "F U" look - he ain't gonna take my punk ass bullshit.

7 hands later, UTG straddle $5:
I limp my 6 6 from UTG+2, 2 callers ahead of me and SB (tightish straightforward from above QQ hand) bumps it to $33 with $370 behind.  Curmudgeon calls ($350 behind) and I think for a bit.  ~10-1 implied but this is an awfully expensive call for speculating on sets.  Given curmudgeon now has a perceived history with me, I call thinking I'm ABSOLUTELY going to stack him if I hit.  I'm getting even nicer insurance if the 2 limpers come along, but they fold.  We see a beauty flop: 6 9 J rainbow.  Original raiser checks, curmudgeon leads for $60 and I try to assess original raiser.  Pretty sure that he's folding no matter what I do, I raise to $200.  Curmudgeon insta-monkey shoves his remaining $290 and I snap him off.  I flip over my 6 6 and he is totally and completely miffed.  He roots for a K which doesn't get there - board runs blank, Ace - and his buy in is gone plus the money from our earlier mix up.  I can see the steam coming out of his ears - oh man!  He flicks my cards, pounds on the table, and walks away muttering all sorts of stuff.

It's always comical when you stack a guy like this.  You only hope that he thinks it's a pissing contest and buys back in immediately, determined to "teach a lesson."  I didn't say a single word to him, but alas, he stormed off.  Oh well.


  1. it's rarity to see top pair pay off a buy in,

    In Vegas last June at a $1/3 NL table full of tourists, I raised to $12 and got two callers. The flop was J-x-x rainbow. I bet $25 into a $36 pot and a guy with Q-J shoved! I mean really. My K-K held up. Amazing how some people play.

    He's proud of himself and giving me the "F U" look - he ain't gonna take my punk ass bullshit.

    You are excellent at reading the table dynamics. I would assume your game if far better when playing live. Being able to look the villain in the eye means a lot.

    1. When I see that sort of stuff, it gives me increased motivation to get back on the tables. Seeing stuff like this makes me hungry for more poker.

  2. He he. Fun story.

    Last night we had a real rookie at our table. I thought at first he was just pretending. He knew some basics of playing, but was pretty clueless. I got him to put in about $120 in one hand where I kept betting my top/top. He had top/decent kicker. Expensive lesson.

    1. Yes - those hands are rarities nowadays... I feel like if you're betting too strong with TPTK you're always going to be shown two pair or better. What it comes down to is as time progresses, players get better & relative hand values drop in value. If you look at online, not more than a few years ago, players are absolutely stacking off TPTK and getting paid with TPNK or even second pair. Spazzing was the name of the game. Now, TPTK is worth maybe 25-50BB depending on the table. You usually have to check one street because you know full well that you're behind when they call of a shove.

  3. SWEET.sounds like the fishes were biting

  4. Nice session PM. It looks like you might be winning your bet with your friend.

    One hand from last session:
    I am sitting with 118 and villian covers me.

    Raise to 12 and pick up 3 callers. V is SB who covers me. Pot: 48

    F: 1083. V checks, I bet 25, he calls. Pot: 98, oh ok, str8 draw or two pair.
    T: 3. V checks, I bet 35 (with 46 behind), he calls. Pot: 168, may be a randow three or a str8 draw.
    R: Q. He checks and I am AI for 46. He snap calls with A's (Wow A's and no raise on any street). Pot: 260

    I feel lucky and really happy to win the pot, but, at what point does one get a feeling that I pot committed. On the turn is when he should know I am not foliding this hand anymore.

  5. WWYD:

    Pre 4 callers: 44. Flop: 44. Turn: 104.

    River: 35 to win 104 where you think you are ahead of the guy who was betting. I would call. If OR comes over the top then we would consider our contribution as a poker donation.


    1. It just felt like the original raiser was too strong making the call. Had I thought about it for a few more minutes, I probably could have convinced myself it's a $35 mistake, which is a decent leak, but not huge. I just couldn't see myself ahead of original raiser...

  6. I had a similar situation up at Winstar..playing 1/2:

    Weekend warrior makes it $25 to go in the cutoff...I look down at JJ...he has about $400...I cover. This guys range here is exactly AA/KK....with the implied odds of stacking him if I hit...I call.

    Flop comes Jxx rainbow (both small cards)...and I am hearing showtunes in my head. Mr AA bets $90 into a $60ish pot. I click it back to $180 and as predicted...he insta shoves...I snap and show him the bad news. We fade the A on the turn and river and I get a courtesy double up. Funny part was he was holding about $10 in white ($1) chips in his hand...and those chips play at 1/2 so I politely asked the dealer if the white chips play at 1/2 (knowing the answer) and he had to hand them over. There is nothing but felt in front of our hero and he walks off mumbling to himself.

    1. $400 is a TON of money to win on a set over overpair situation. I thought it was awesome to win over $300 in that spot.

      What this made me re-re-re-realize is that I need to start table changing FAR more often than I had been. I tend to get into lazy / comfort mode when I set down at a table and learn players' tendencies. I don't switch to better & better tables, and I really need to be doing that.

  7. Definitely...table selection is critical. Just like they say there are 3 important things in real estate:
    Location, Location and Location.

    Table selection can make all the difference in a session....I personally like to play in loose aggressve games...bigger swings...but bigger rewards when things go your way. The worst thing you can do is sit around and drink and chat at a nitty table,,,,doesn't matter how nice/fun your opponents are...the house is making all the money at a table like that.

  8. Good recap. On the KJ hand, it looked like you had the table read correctly. I sometimes also check the flop when I hit with a possibly outkicked top pair like KJ, and if no one else bets, its usually because you are not outkicked. The error came when you folded. You should've stuck with your original read/line. Overall, though, its great to read about your play. I really miss playing.


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