tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post6687051556215522379..comments2023-12-01T14:39:41.613-05:00Comments on Just the facts... a low stakes poker blog: What would you do? #156 - Holding pp KK to a flop committing betThe Poker Meisterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-9200354945626715672010-08-06T15:33:04.111-04:002010-08-06T15:33:04.111-04:00@Poker J: "Playing oop, you should 4 bet much...@Poker J: "Playing oop, you should 4 bet much bigger to either let him get it in, fold or make the spr so small on the flop that you should not fold."<br /><br />The idea is interesting to overbet 4bet OOP. It really polarizes me to more nuts PF than bluff. The problem with it is that it folds out all of the hands I want to call - only AK (sometimes) AA (always) KK (always?) and QQ (The Poker Meisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-58458188906910367992010-08-06T14:20:19.558-04:002010-08-06T14:20:19.558-04:00Awesome hand and typical trouble spot for me too.
...Awesome hand and typical trouble spot for me too.<br />I do not have an answer for this problem and frankly, I think folding or shoving is fine. He could have 99+ IP here. I think you are putting players on ranges that you would play. <br /><br />I think I have a solution. Playing oop, you should 4 bet much bigger to either let him get it in, fold or make the spr so small on the flop that youPoker Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-62985218897081177202010-08-05T17:28:37.573-04:002010-08-05T17:28:37.573-04:00Two things I'll bring up because I think you a...Two things I'll bring up because I think you are restricting his range too much in this spot:<br /><br />#1) Your 4-bet was a bit weak: $8.25 more into a pot of $19. With about $50 behind, he's not going to fold as much as his 100% fold to three-bet indicates.<br /><br />#2) There is always a non-zero chance a player will go off the deep-end and play against his stats. 100% Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01776475757665229021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-42271604677082955842010-08-05T14:51:27.787-04:002010-08-05T14:51:27.787-04:00@Mojo: Thanks for asking. You're such a good...@Mojo: Thanks for asking. You're such a good straight man :-) Check out:<br />http://lowstakeshands.blogspot.com/2009/12/quickie-run-down-of-poker-tracker-pt3.html<br /><br />I have most of my posts categorized with labels. Of particular interest may be "Strategy." If you look on the blog, on the right side, under "Labels" you'll see all of the different topics The Poker Meisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-53052293200233809162010-08-05T14:16:39.226-04:002010-08-05T14:16:39.226-04:0016/10 / 25% steal / 3.1% 3bet / 100% fold to 3bet ...<i>16/10 / 25% steal / 3.1% 3bet / 100% fold to 3bet / 2.2 AF / 80% lead flop / 530 hands</i><br /><br />Pokermeister: Most of the players who discuss poker deals with you know what the above means. Some of us cavemen don't. 16/10, um he's 16 years old and has a 10-year-old sister, right?<br /><br />Have you considered doing a v-e-r-y basic post on what all this means. I don't have Memphis MOJOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12653631347560307425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-91477097871955525402010-08-05T12:23:29.482-04:002010-08-05T12:23:29.482-04:00We all agree that 500+ hands is an adequate sample...We all agree that 500+ hands is an adequate sample size [I hope]. That said, is a 16/10 - a fairly tight player - calling a 4 bet with AQ? AsKs, yes, but AQ? I just don't see it. I see a 16/10 4bet flatting AsKs of course, QQ, *MAYBE* JJ, KK (less likely) and AA (which would be off-norm and well played, though didn't get me, tricky BTN!). He's 3betting 3.1% of the time in those The Poker Meisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-76329413637839017242010-08-05T11:51:25.443-04:002010-08-05T11:51:25.443-04:00I am with matt tag in that I think the flop lead i...I am with matt tag in that I think the flop lead is the biggest thing arguing against QQ here.<br /><br />I don't think this is a flame-worthy fold necessarily, but it is a very, very tight one, and one that treats your read as more or less solid gold at him having precisely KQ. Personally I don't think the fold is terrible here, and I don't think the Anon pussies saying you "Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031535857121915911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-62830440633530542182010-08-05T09:56:30.844-04:002010-08-05T09:56:30.844-04:00To add to Matt Tag's point, if villain has QQ ...To add to Matt Tag's point, if villain has QQ here [and I still expect a value bet a lot of the time] is it really for 2/3 pot or actually close to 1/2 pot to leave room to float, come over the top, etc. Villain's Fold to 3bet % is 100% at over 500 hands. I don't think he is ever defneding with JJ- or AK- [disagreement expected]. With a Q on the flop and given that I think villain omgitsjoshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01140998827175041379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-84344654448152944842010-08-05T09:19:46.962-04:002010-08-05T09:19:46.962-04:00Nice! We'll compare notes afterward.Nice! We'll compare notes afterward.The Poker Meisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-40262160472818548012010-08-05T08:56:59.950-04:002010-08-05T08:56:59.950-04:00LOL - I am in the process of signing up with Mpeth...LOL - I am in the process of signing up with MpethyBridge/SplitSuit also.<br /><br />My #1 topic is 3betting, and playing AK.matt taghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082969194551315973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-36787943332711918572010-08-05T08:54:45.179-04:002010-08-05T08:54:45.179-04:00I signed on to get coaching with SplitSuit last ni...I signed on to get coaching with SplitSuit last night. I am also getting a LeakFinder session with MpethyBridge. This type of situation is going to be my NUMBER 1 issue: playing big PPs OOP. Moreover, playing hands OOP continues to be a struggle for me.The Poker Meisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289059101454598371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-53084985441159223562010-08-05T08:42:31.683-04:002010-08-05T08:42:31.683-04:00I think your logic is sound. One point hit me, th...I think your logic is sound. One point hit me, though - why does QQ lead on a Q34 flop? There's only one draw, and flush draws are discounted anyway b/c this is a 4 bet pot. QQ has an equity lock here.<br /><br />Maybe he just never slowplays, ever.matt taghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082969194551315973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-83135057901365414722010-08-05T08:32:11.568-04:002010-08-05T08:32:11.568-04:00I think the point I failed to get across was that ...I think the point I failed to get across was that you need to account for some bluffs in his overall range. You tend to focus on value ranges and sometimes seem to forget they can have bluffs in their range too. And you definitely encourage those to stick around with your flop check.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9142521684451555818.post-58611349123275773862010-08-05T08:29:41.367-04:002010-08-05T08:29:41.367-04:00Fair enough...
I'd add 1010, AQ, and maybe 99...Fair enough...<br /><br />I'd add 1010, AQ, and maybe 99 (call it half of them) to the preflop range. <br /><br />Your hand looks so much like AK here (with the outside chance of QQ for the flopped nuts), however, that I think you need to call or jam. If you call, you re-evaluate on the turn, but you might need to call a shove just in case he is bluffing.<br /><br />If he is a thinking Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com